XP 7240 "Wasserkreislauf muss gefüllt werden"

Hi all,

hope it's ok that I'm writing in English - this seems by far to be the best place for this type of problems and questions and I can understand German quite well, it's just a lot of work writing it. So hopefully English is ok, it's absolutely fine if answers come in German!

Now to the problem:

Our Krups XP 7240 was asking for an Entkalkung, which we did but as I hadn't read the manual properly I used hot water and citric acid (the powder stuff used for decalcifying coffee machines and water cookers etc).

After the cycle finished the float device in the water tank had developed a leak and wouldn't float, so we couldn't use the machine for a bit. I fixed this with an improvised repair, but once that was done the machine had developed a weird problem:

When I switch the machine on and enter time, it starts warming up. After this it goes into testing mode and after I while a message shows "Wasserkreislauf muss gefüllt werden" - I then have to place a container under the steam shower and push OK twice. Doing this it starts pumping and making sounds and hot water comes out of the steam shower shortly. Then it sounds again and more water comes out, usually ending with only steam coming through. At this point it goes into the testing mode again, only to come back to the same message "Wasserkreislauf muss gefüllt werden". I've tried doing this over and over about 12 times in a row, to no result.

I've tried pulling the machine apart, cleaning everything, but it still gives me the same problem.

Does anybody know what the problem can be? Obviously there's water coming through the steam shower, so I am guessing it's somewhere else that it wants water but it's not getting there.

Any advice would be very much appreciated!

Best regards
//Joris
Sweden

Hallo

Diesen Fehler konnte ich auch schoneinmal bei einer XP beobachten. Bei mir lag es damals an einem defekten Wasserverteiler. Aber ich kann bis heute nicht sagen was am Verteiler defekt war ich habe ihn einfach getauscht und die Maschine lief wieder.

Ähnlich war auch der Fall (click here) den wir hier im Forum hatten.

Ehe ich du am Verteiler rumschraubst würde ich erstmal das Flowmeter ausbauen und prüfen. Dreht sich die Turbine wenn du hineinbläst?

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Gruß
Kaffeeliebhaber

Thanks for the reply - I've tested the flowmeter and it seems to work ok. I tried sucking water through it and that's fine, sounds like something spinning inside as well.

I've already been inside the Wasserverteiler and have cleaned it out and put it back together again. Initially I did so incorrectly so no water would make it out of the steam nozzle even, but after putting it in place correctly it's back to the original fault where the machine goes into the endless loop.

Kaffeeliebhaber, which part exactly did you swap out? The entire plastic housing with the gears and everything, or only the white plastic? And use the gears and such you already had?

Do you know where exactly the problem is, i.e. which part of the machine is supposed to be filled, but currently not happening?


Best regards
//Joris

Hallo

Ich habe damals den Wasserverteiler komplett ausgetauscht.
Den defekten hatte ich auch zerlegt aber keinen Fehler gefunden. Nichts war gebrochen oder verstopft. Ich habe das Teil immer noch hier liegen.

Teste mal was man im Service Modus (click here) noch erreichen kann. Einfach mal alle Funktionen durchtesten und einen Brühvorgang simulieren. Dazu mußt du mehrfach hin und herschalten. Also Wasserverteilerstufen wechseln, Pumpen, Heizen und so weiter.

Was nun letztlich der Grund für den Fehler ist würde ich auch gerne wissen.

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Gruß
Kaffeeliebhaber

Thanks again, didn't know about the service mode.

Just tested and for some reason I cannot start the pump nor the "hydraulik down" in the pump menu. When I chose either option, the screen shows that the option highlights as in I've selected it, but nothing happens in the machine. If I, however, start the machine in regular mode, the pump works just fine

Any idea what might cause this? Would be perfect if I could start the pump and test the different steps in the Verteiler - it responds fine to the menu where I chose to have it in starting position then increase 1 step at a time. Motor sounds and the Verteiler rotates to next position as it should.


So why won't the pump work? I currently have not put everything back together - top is not on for example. Neither is the Kaffeekuchenbehalter in place, as it shouldn't be when starting into service mode. Should I place it in in order for the pump to work? Or is there some other trigger for this?


Best regards
//Joris

Me again - answered the above myself by simply testing inserting the Kaffeekuchenbehälter - after this the pump works.


I now know what the problem is - the hydraulik system doesn't work. That is, it starts pumping when I chose "Hydraulik down" in the menu, but nothing moves. I can push it down manually though.

As far as I've learned from pulling the machine apart and checking out all parts, the hydraulik is operated by water pressure? There's no pump for it specifically, is there?

So the problem is that the water pressure that's supposed to push down the Hydraulik (what is the unit called...) is either insufficient or not there at all. As far as I can tell, though, all tubes and openings are free. However, running the "filling" routine, the machine starts pumping water which then comes out through the steam nozzle - since the machine asks for a cup/holder to be placed underneath, this seems ok. However after this the Verteiler is moving, then the pump kicks back in - I'm guessing that at this point it's supposed to push down the Hydraulik? Would require a working machine to confirm though... but anyway, instead water comes out through the steam nozzle again. Could this, then, be yet another case of the valve being/operating faulty? I mean the white plast one with the plunger inside, that's mounted to the side of the Verteiler and can be removed by rotating it some degrees. So instead of building up required pressure for the Hydraulik to move down, water comes out through the steam nozzle instead....


Any thoughts on this theory and what I could possibly test to fix this?

Cheers
//Joris

Hallo

Der Service Modus setzt Kenntnis der Maschinenfunktion voraus.

Du mußt erst den Wasserverteiler in Position bringen:
Wasserverteiler Startposition anfahren.
Dann die dritte Stufe anfahren um die Funktion für Kolben senken zu ermöglichen.

QUOTE

-Stufe 1 ist die Grundstellung und heben des Kolbens -Stufe 2 ist Heißwasser oder Dampf je nach Temperatur -Stufe 3 ist zum senken des Kolbens -Stufe 4 Stellung zum Kaffee brühen -Stufe 5 kein Pumpen vorgesehen hoher Druck

Also zweimal!! nächste Stufe.
Dann zurück in das Service Menü.
Dann pumpen oder die Funktion Absenkhydraulik auswählen.
Dann wieder zurück zum Verteiler.
Nächste Stufe anwählen für Kaffee brühen.
Dann wieder zur Pumpe.
Pumpe einschalten und Wasser wird in die Brühkammer geleitet.
Dann wieder zurück zum Verteiler.
Wieder Startposition anfahren.
Kolben fährt hoch - fertig.

Alle Funktionen die sonst das Programm ausführt mußt du manuell veranlassen.

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Gruß
Kaffeeliebhaber

Hrm yes I understand the procedure now. But as I wrote above, the Kolbe doesn't move. If I try and help by pushing it down manually it stays in position, so it does somehow either fill with water or create vacuum to keep it in place - this does, by the way, only work whilst the pump is working and the Verteiler is in the right position, if not I can push it down but it will just veer up again when I stop pushing. Once it's down it does automatically go back up when I move the Verteiler to start position.

It takes quite a lot of force to move the Kolbe - is it somehow obstructed or dirty? I did clean inside the white Hydraulik system. Or is it water pressure related, and if so, what could I do next? There is water coming to the hydraulik, it just seems as if the system cannot build up enough pressure to move the Kolbe down. I do not have any spare parts available to me, don't know where to buy them either

//Joris

Hi again,

I can add that I'm not at any point getting any water into the Brewing unit? I guess water is supposed to come in from below, then pushed through the ground coffee and up so it comes out top? Regardless of which position the Verteiler is in, no water ever comes into the metal brew unit housing though.

Pretty much the only position that makes something happen is steg 1 after the starting position, for which water comes out of the steam/water nozzle. Any other position and the pump will work, but nothing moves or happens nor does any water come out anywhere. I'm a bit concerned that somehow this should mean pressure building up somewhere?


I do not really know where to go from here, other than buying spare parts which I do not have any idea will help. Given the problems of these Krups machines I am not very eager to spend money on it though.....

So all of this started after a decalcifying procedure with hot water, could that have caused the problem and does it possibly indicate what the problem might in fact be? If the magnetic float broke during the procedure that means the machine will not have known when water tank was empty - could that have caused this problem?


Best regards
//Joris

Hallo

Wenn kein Wasser in die Brühkammer kommt kann auch der Zufluß innerhalb der Kammer verstopft sein. Das hatte ich auch schonmal.

Teste es indem du Wasser in die Brühkammer einfüllst (einfach von oben rein). Es sollte durch das Draingeventil in die Tropfschlale fließen.

Falls nicht erstmal das Drainageventil ausbauen und schauen ob das Wasser dann herausfließt. Falls immer noch nicht ist der Zufluß verstopft. Den Zufluß habe ich dann wieder freibekommen indem ich die Bohrung innen gereinigt habe (mit einem Draht). Dannach alles gut mit einem Föhn trocknen und freiblasen. Es ist festgebackener Kaffeesatz was die Verstopfung auslöst.

Ansonsten ist der Fehler sehr mysteriös und ich konnte das ständige Füllen des Wasserkreislaufes auch nicht nachvollziehen. Und der Wasserverteiler ist zu teuer als das man ihn einfach mal so austauscht.

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Gruß
Kaffeeliebhaber

The water is pouring through and comes into the Tropfschale, so there's no problem there.

If I find the time tomorrow I will have a try and remove the tube that goes to the Hydraulik, then try what happens when activating the pump in position 3 - see if water comes out then. I can try the same with the tube that feeds the Bruhkammer.

Appears to be the Verteiler at fault, but I really don't have a clue why. When I had it all apart, including all tubes, I tested blowing through all holes/tubes etc and it seemed as though all was fine. Inner work inside the Verteiler hasn't been touched before the problem started so could hardly be a problem there either.

Typical, running into a problem that nobody knows how to solve

I don't really want to spend money on this machine, seeing as I've already ordered a replacement which is due tomorrow. A Melitta Caffeo Lounge - hopefully somebody in the Melitta section will answer my question regarding whether it's possible to check the number of brew cycles the machine has done, since I purchased it as a demo model (but I am entitled to test it and return it to the shop if I'm not satisfied). So would like to find out how much use it's had.

Still if I could find a way to repair the Krups I'd be happy to keep it as spare or pass it on to friends for free, with a note to not expect too long life of it...

//J

Hi

Ich werde mir das Innere eines Wasserverteilers mal genauer anschauen. Eventuell kann ja eine Steuerscheibe für die Hydraulik verrutschen oder in einen unkontrollierten Zustand kommen.
Dadurch bleiben die Ventile geschlossen und der ganze Wasserfluß kommt ins Stocken.
Auf jeden Fall sieht es auch in deinem Fall so aus als ob der Wasserverteiler die Ursache für den Fehler ist.

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Gruß
Kaffeeliebhaber

Hello again,

have been reading through many topics in these forums during the day (lot of spare time whilst doing titrations in the lab) - learned a lot about the machines functionality and will probably have a go at ours tonight again, test some more.

One question I have: when in service mode, I can make the WV rotate into each successive position and start the pump. In position 2 I get water from the steam nozzle, in any other position the pump is working but no water comes out. Nor, as I mentioned, does the Kolbe go down.

So what's happening with the pressure/water? I can't see any water showing up anywhere, not in the Behalter in the bottom nor anywhere any signs of leaks. So what is the pump doing? I did notice that twice after having had the machine apart the pump made an awful sound, indicating it was running dry. Once water was inside the noise disappeared and normal sound returned.

Am I having problems with the flowmeter after all? I can blow through it and I can hear/feel the turbine rotating/vibrating. Is there any way to open the flowmeter up for cleaning/checkup?


I want to test tonight what happens if I remove the tube from the Kolbe/Hydraulik and put the Verteiler in position 3, i.e. to lower the Verteiler, then start the pump. There should be water coming out from the tube then, right? And just to be sure: 15 bar is quite a lot of pressure, but it's built up slowly right? I.e. I do not have to worry that a jetstream of water will hit the ceiling or whatever else it's aimed at?


Basically what I do not understand is why the pump appears to be working, no error messages show up indicating problem with flow (meter), yet no water appears anywhere but from the steam nozzle and only when in that position :s

Best regards
//Joris

Es gibt einen Schlauch vom Wasserverteiler zurück zum Wassertank. Hierdurch wird das in den Zylinder gepumpte Wasser beim heben des Kolbens zurück in den Tank gedrückt.

Um einen Fehler im Wasserverteiler auszuschliessen würde ich also vorschlagen diesen Schlauch abzuziehen und den Zulauf zum Wassertank zu verschliessen. Anschliessend wieder probieren den Kolben nach unten zu pumpen.

Wenn jetzt immer noch kein Wasser austritt kann es nur noch an der Pumpe liegen, da verloren gehender Druck entweder in die Tropfschale oder über den (jetzt geöffneten) Anschluss zum Wassertank entweichen müsste.

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Quick Mill 05000 "Unique Edition", WMF Ecco

Thanks for the suggestion - will give that a try when I find some time and energy for it!